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 Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess

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Kira

Kira

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PostSubject: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptyFri Oct 28, 2011 9:30 pm

the on going discussion about yath'tallars has me reading. I came across something inconsistant with our position of Yath'tallar and would like to discuss.

High priestess vs head Priestess?

I've always thought of the Yath'tallar as a high priestess. Meaning it is a level any cleric of Lolth could eventually attain within the yath and there isn't a limited number of them. For Example Zau'afin once had 4 yath'tallars. Dabel'kith currently has 2 and are about to get two more.

I've recently read that a yath'tallar is more of a head priestess. Which is more of a leadership position in the house NOT the yath. In the yath she is still just a yathrin like all the other priestesses.

From Axe's post "Rank/Station, & Progression in the Qu'ellar of Lolth.
http://dalelandsbeyond.forumotion.com/t2052-rank-stations-progression-in-the-qu-ellar-of-lolth-work-in-progress?highlight=favoured+soul+lolth

Quote :
High Priestess / Yathtallar

The High Priestess is a title within the House and not of the Church.

Quote :
The High

Priestess leads all the Priestesses of the House and she is responsible

for ensuring all within the House is loyal to the Spider, even (if not

especially) the Matron Mother can be subjected to such suspicions by the

High Priestess though such an investigation must run its course in the

most subtle fashion.


If we are to follow this then All the Ilharess's Lidtichi, Ginathee, and LiNeer can NOT be a yath'tallar as they hold the house position of Ilharess. Further Shynatra couldn't be a yath'tallar bc she isn't in a house. Without a house there is no position for Yath'tallar.

So the only yath'tallar on the server would be Llilith of Dabel'kith. Or Guassafee if she wasn't banned.

So you thoughts?
High priestess or head priestess in the house?
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Karasu

Karasu

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptyFri Oct 28, 2011 9:45 pm

I vote for this. This make a sense to me! So the yath structure would be something like that outside of a House:

Yath'abban - trainers
Yathrin - priestess

And the head priestess in an area/ city/settlement. (don't know the name, but that should be the NPC at the camp Smile

Inside a House

Yath'abban
Yathrin
Yath'tallar - high-priestess of a House.

Though I would argue in this case someone could both be an Ilharess and Yath'tallar in a House at the same time, as one is a clerical position while the other is the political head of the Qu'ellar.

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Kira

Kira

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptyFri Oct 28, 2011 10:32 pm

I think traditionally the Yath'tallar or head priestess is also the 1st daughter. She is in line of succession and is there watching the matron mother to make sure she toes the spider queen's line. BC if the Matron slips up the Yath'tallar will be happy to step in and take over.

the yath'tallar and Matron mother need to be separate people.
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Gaussafae

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptyFri Oct 28, 2011 10:57 pm

When Nil'kah was the Zau'Afin Ilharess all we heard was how horrible the house was because she wasn't a Yath. I guess its too much to expect humans to be consistant
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Kira

Kira

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 1:09 am

I'm not arguing for or against this. I'm just pointing out the inconsistancy.

I still say an Ilharess needs to be Yath' I would still give Nil'Kah a hard time if she was an Ilharess again.

the post above just points out that yath'tallar is really a house position not a yath position. Both the yath'tallar and the Ilharess ought to be yathrin first and house positions second.
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Ansient

Ansient

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 1:12 am

(Sorry, I'd removed my post as I hadn't even read the OP and thought I was in another thread)

To my knowledge "yathtallar" / "high priestess" is a religious rank and "head priestess" is a house one. A character often, but not always, holds both ranks.

I know for a fact a house can have multiple "high priestesses" (it gives them bragging rights and is a sign of Lolth's favor), whereas they can really only have one "head priestess" as it's a single, house-specific position.
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Kira

Kira

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 1:15 am

That makes sense Ansient

So perhaps there is a name for the house head priestess other then yath'tallar we can use.

perhaps, qu'el'Tallar or qu'el'yath'tallar
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Ansient

Ansient

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 1:23 am

When there's ambiguity I've seen it referred to as "house yath'tallar" or "head yath'tallar".

(BTW I'm not sure when people around here started writing Yath'tallar, Yath'tellar, Yath'Tallar, etc, but I've seen it as Yathtallar in every other source/setting I've come across. No E or apostrophe.)
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VileNolram

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 1:26 am

this matter is simple summed up. yath'tellar is a high priestess, ul'ath'tellar is the highest priestess.
The ul'ath'tellar has power over an ilharess only in the realm of temple matters (which can be a gray area politicly) which is like an ilharess trump. Ilharess is the highest rank in society however given the power the ul'ath'tellar can wield on a temple matter it can be subjected. I hope this is clear for the future. (sub note ilahress are most often yath, but not nessarily)
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Ansient

Ansient

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 1:29 am

Hmm. I've seen Ulathtallar (arch-priestess) used for the top priestess of an entire city, not of an individual house.
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NorthernStarshine



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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 7:01 am

Ala Chessla referred to the NPC Cleric, Elina'reuth, as Ulath'tallar. Referred to others as "Camp Il'haress". And that's why she holds the sway over other Yath'tallaren and has the power to ban people from camp on her whim.
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Karasu

Karasu

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 7:06 am

Kira wrote:
I think traditionally the Yath'tallar or head priestess is also the 1st daughter. She is in line of succession and is there watching the matron mother to make sure she toes the spider queen's line. BC if the Matron slips up the Yath'tallar will be happy to step in and take over.

the yath'tallar and Matron mother need to be separate people.

Make a sense, keeping the rivalry between the females. Though I can see some cases when someone would break this tradition, perhaps frowned upon, but not a serious crime, perhaps treated as a sign of weakness.

But there is one Yath'tallar in each House in this interpretation.
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Karasu

Karasu

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 7:14 am

Ansient wrote:
(Sorry, I'd removed my post as I hadn't even read the OP and thought I was in another thread)

To my knowledge "yathtallar" / "high priestess" is a religious rank and "head priestess" is a house one. A character often, but not always, holds both ranks.

I know for a fact a house can have multiple "high priestesses" (it gives them bragging rights and is a sign of Lolth's favor), whereas they can really only have one "head priestess" as it's a single, house-specific position.

Ah, I read further. Smile Sounds reasonable.
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DM_AXE

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 2:48 pm

Elina'reuth is the Ilharess, Yath'tallar(however anyone cares to spell it), & Ulath'tallar. She is the Alpha and Omega.
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Karasu

Karasu

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 4:56 pm

DM_AXE wrote:
Elina'reuth is the Ilharess, Yath'tallar(however anyone cares to spell it), & Ulath'tallar. She is the Alpha and Omega.

The head of the Qu'ellar that established the camp, right? And every other camp is there because they let them to be there. So in the end she is the head of the yath and the highest political status inside in theory.
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VileNolram

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PostSubject: Re: Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess   Yath'Tallar High priestess or head priestess EmptySat Oct 29, 2011 4:58 pm

Ansient wrote:
Hmm. I've seen Ulathtallar (arch-priestess) used for the top priestess of an entire city, not of an individual house.

correct! however the ul'alth'tellar can also have house nobility, however not always.
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