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 OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue

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Aidan Airna

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:40 pm

White Rose wrote:
In the end, I am glad some this discussion has been aired. I hope we can take positive aspects from it and grow.

I see this has reached a point that I need to step up and bring things to a close.

I will upload the destroyed version of the Keep and land, as if we had burned it down ourselves. It is still up to the Dm team to accept it and bring it in game, I have no control over that part.

I do this to avoid anyone loosing chars to Permadeath.
I do this to end this conflictive discussion.
I take the full responsibility of the losses to our Guild
I admit I boinked up even considering the HDM's proposal.
I admit Rp with Zhents to try to fulfill that proposal.
I confess my wanting to please , went very off base in the end.
I admit this is too far to back out.
All this is on me.


Sooo I also , hereby, grant full permission to any and all DM's to give keys to players who wish to occupy the Keep before the destroyed version is put in game. Anyone who wants to defend it , can , while it lasts. No battle , no permadeath , no conflict needs to happen. Nobody needs to leave angry.

  I can upload the burned version as early as Wednesday or Thursday

Let there be Peace !

White Rose


Ravossel can easily enuf delevel the keep, and return it to the land.

Stone to mud spell, and or move earth spell.
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HexBladerX

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:13 pm

Aidan Airna wrote:
Ravossel can easily enuf delevel the keep, and return it to the land.

Stone to mud spell, and or move earth spell.

So you're saying we could level SD fortifications in the same way? *takes notes*
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Lazern

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:08 pm

HexBladerX wrote:
Aidan Airna wrote:
Ravossel can easily enuf delevel the keep, and return it to the land.

Stone to mud spell, and or move earth spell.

So you're saying we could level SD fortifications in the same way?   *takes notes*

What druids? ;p.  Do rangers get that spell?  Calling Banite rangers!


I kind of see two situations arising from this:  one is that people start thinking about IC consequences and the scope of what characters can do vs. what mega powers can do, and we play nicely.  The second is that we continue to be outraged by even the most sensible attention, and no DM will ever risk running events anymore.  This thread has a DM trying to run a meaningful, character-defining event for a guild, and getting trashed for it.  I asked DM's what would encourage them to play, and it was almost unanimous that appreciation and less outright bashing them was most important (if not the ONLY thing that was important).

We can have interesting challenges and sensible events, or we can have a fit every time we don't get everything and have be left with no one willing to dm.  Heck, ask a zhent the last time we "won" an event.  Rook is brutal - you have to bring your A game and even then you might fail - but great hardships are required to set up great triumphs.  It's just good storytelling.  Would star wars be good if obe won killed vader?  Or take it a step further, if in the first scene Leia killed vader and then flew her little ship to the mega star destroyer and killed the emperor - end movie?  (Sure, some will say star wars isn't good as is, but just make the same analogy with any good movie).

The zhents being ousted from shadowdale is the death star blowing up (the second time?), but you know that disney is gonna make some more movies, and some bad stuff has to happen in episode 7 to set up some good rebuilding in episode 8 and an awesome win in episode 9!  (whew, omitted spoilers if you haven't seen the new one).
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White Rose

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:57 am

Actually, Lazern, everything you just said is the basic reason I listened to the HDM Arch at the very beginning of all this .
 Everything is set and underway , there won't be any repeals, or changes in direction. It's all been more complicated  than expected , yes, but the story , as you say, goes onward ... Twists , breaks , bumps, set backs and glory ...

  As a player, and not a Dm, only one thing I might have expected that will not be .., is battles and events where everyone could come participate with usual PvP rules.
But, its not my call to make.

One thing we should really consider is how endlessly complicated it is for Dm's to host a battle . The event that led to this end was no more than one player ( me) defending a Keep with NPC's vs a group of 4-5 players as Zhents. It became a circus that required a Dm to come handle.
   It's hard to honor 'reality' in even a limited event like that. Everyone wants to just crush their opponent with zero loss. I would imagine a battle would be and endless tangled mess of bickering and ego.
PvP gets complicated fast in large scale. ... Now add in permadeath !

Just burning the place may avoid even worse player conflicts than this forum thread .
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Lazern

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:06 am

I'm not so certain that the zhents vs misty falls event is going to involve a big PvP battle. It doesn't really have to include any zhent players, and might be easier to run without them.
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White Rose

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:11 am

No battle , but I would like a ceremony event for all the members when we torch it
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Aidan Airna

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Sorry for the delay, do to work.

And yes Rook , unfair.

Unfair in the fact that from nearly day one and on word it has been a nearly ever ending battle.
A fine example of this would be that we would spend 1-4 MONTHS RPing building some thing, or some thing. Then it would take 2-6 months to get the changes approved and be put into the next up date, then 3-ish months later it's in game. After 6 or so months there is some BS ruling that it's all Recon, or nurffed, and then reckoned, then it took another five months for the new up dates to replaced what was reconed and or nurffed.

That was jest ONE of the lesser things we had to put up with occly from the staff, across many years.

Now to me at least, it looks like the staff is using, and or has been using Misty falls a chew toy. Now means to make a example of us by using the Zents as ig means to get rid of Misty Falls.

So yes, from my prospective it seems quite unfair. Regardless of the fact there are many things that can be dune.




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cdnspr

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:38 pm

You know Rook isn't a builder, right?  He's a DM and DMs are supposed to provide events and assist with rp and technical stuff ig.  He doesn't build stuff and he doesn't put that built stuff in-game.  You're not helping your case at all by blaming Rook for stuff that's by definition outside his responsibility and that in all likelihood he doesn't know how to do.
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HexBladerX

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:50 pm

Aidan Airna wrote:
Sorry for the delay, do to work.

And yes Rook , unfair.

Unfair in the fact that from nearly day one and on word it has been a nearly ever ending battle.
A fine example of this would be that we would spend 1-4 MONTHS RPing building some thing, or some thing. Then it would take 2-6 months to get the changes approved and be put into the next up date, then 3-ish months later it's in game. After 6 or so months there is some BS ruling that it's all Recon, or nurffed, and then reckoned, then it took another five months for the new up dates to replaced what was reconed and or nurffed.

That was jest ONE of the lesser things we had to put up with occly from the staff, across many years.

Now to me at least, it looks like the staff is using, and or has been using Misty falls a chew toy. Now means to make a example of us by using the Zents as ig means to get rid of Misty Falls.

So yes, from my prospective it seems quite unfair. Regardless of the fact there are many things that can be dune.






Just a question, Aidan Airna.

If you're so mistreated? Why are you still even here?

I mean all that whining and complaining is taxing on the staff sure but I can hardly picture myself even having the energy to bother with doing half of it.

You must be absolutely drained.
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Sa'Kage

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:12 pm

Ayy.. Passive Aggressive as all hell man..

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so you don't gotta do that.

Smile
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jalmynar

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:28 pm

Many people play on the server because of the in game relationships and fun they have. Not for the staff not for events not for anything beyond logging in to rp with people. So why bash him for still playing here when he is logging in to have fun? Many people have complaints about things on the forums and still love to log in because thier friends are here. I don't see how bashing someone publicly helps anything.

The way things have happened May not be ideal. White Rose has said they are destroying it and the staff agreed to refund them and let them move it. If the staff decide to destroy my player housing I would hope I got a refund to build else where. I was told when I wanted to build it outside of town that possibility was very likely depending on where I built it. I can see how some would have hoped for a more interactive event when something like a guild hall is gutted but it didn't work out. As a former guild leader (like clix) I watched it because I wanted to see the way the staff handled the matter because it effects all other guild halls. The mage guild at the crossroads could be the next target, the hounds, or the drow could wipe out the ih. All guilds are at risk. If a group doesn't want to be under the thumb of a faction they now risk anillation. That is the only message I have taken away from this. But as most of the guilds have almost no membership any longer I guess it doesn't matter. I no longer have a dog in this race. I just log in to meet up good rulers and enjoy the time I spend with them. What happens doesn't really matter outside of how it affects friends who may quit over it.
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cdnspr

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:54 pm

jalmynar wrote:
If a group doesn't want to be under the thumb of a faction they now risk anillation. That is the only message I have taken away from this.

I can only hope this is the case going forward. It would be a good way to address the sense of entitlement seen among player guild leaders. I for one do not want to play on a server made up of fiefdoms controlled by the players responding in this thread.
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HexBladerX

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:59 pm

jalmynar wrote:
Many people play on the server because of the in game relationships and fun they have. Not for the staff not for events not for anything beyond logging in to rp with people. So why bash him for still playing here when he is logging in to have fun? Many people have complaints about things on the forums and still love to log in because thier friends are here. I don't see how bashing someone publicly helps anything.


Jalmynar,

You more than anyone else (that is still playing nwn2) should have understood what I was trying to stir with that post.  Often people forget why they feel attachment to a server and lose themselves in the negativity. They don't like X Y and Z and they keep hammering it.  But there's a reason they stay and they are not moving elsewhere. That something is often the friends you made, the stories that keeps on unfolding. That's what I wanted Aidan Airna to realize and the same goes to all those constantly complaining about staff and unfairness in general.

We went through 4 hdms 3 admins and a bunch of dms and not one has been up to the challenge apparently. Perhaps its time we look at the mirror and accept the fact that the community in general will never be pleased with its current attitude and that we need to grow up as a community toward accepting defeats, bumps in the road and delays.
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Aidan Airna

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PostSubject: Re: OOC Misty Falls / Zhent issue    Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:32 pm

cdnspr wrote:
You know Rook isn't a builder, right?  He's a DM and DMs are supposed to provide events and assist with rp and technical stuff ig.  He doesn't build stuff and he doesn't put that built stuff in-game.  You're not helping your case at all by blaming Rook for stuff that's by definition outside his responsibility and that in all likelihood he doesn't know how to do.


I do know cdnspr that rook is not a Builder.

But that was be sides the point.

I have spoken my mind, and now have little els to say.
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