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Assistant DM_MindFlayer

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PostSubject: Name the Ranks of Yath   Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:09 pm

This should be a constructive suggestion regarding how characters should refer to ranks IG.

Based on a tiered system from greatest rank to least, give me your templates. I know its been discussed before and EVIL designed a lot of this already, but he's not the DM anymore. (And clearly what is in place is not working.)
No disrespect to him, because I have interacted with him IG and Oocly and really dig the guy. But it's time for some fresh takes and ideas from the current players.


Please keep all info you share strictly relevant to this topic or it will be deleted.
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FuzzieBunny

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:40 pm

Yath'abban - at least 5 levels of cleric, FS, or some other sort of divine caster (and or Warlock as these are being RP'ed by a few as yath'abbans), and an over all level of 10. I say level 10 here because this gets rid of the level 1 troll. You have time to meet all the players, learn the lore and establish yourself. It is not about 'grinding' It is about taking the time to know the server and learn. Making at least level 10 shows your intention is serious. You need to past the Test of Lolth in game, (or in a PM to a yathrin if there is time zone issues) You will need to rp your intent to join and be accepted in the church. This can be in a thread on the forums if there is a time zone issue.

Yathrin - The ability to cast level 5 divine spells ( you must be either a FS or a Cleric, no other class) and an over all level of 18. This is completely do able and shows you are growing in the church as you should. It gives a 8 level buffer that is really not so hard to reach IG. You need to be approved by a yath'tallar. Past the tests of Lolth and have done a good amount of rp, not just grinding.

Yath'tallar- Clerics only! The ablilty to cast level 9 divine spells. It makes 0 since for other clerics to have greater access to divine spells then the High priest so anything under level 9 divine to me, is not very lore based. You must have an over all level of 23. This is do able and shows you are comitted. This must be DM approved, as well as the matron of what ever house your in approved.
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LoudDave

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:25 pm

My opinions are so close i'm just going to +1 this.
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ObsidianRaven

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:27 pm

I am in favor of this:

Lord Droke wrote:
Quote :
So i guess we should plan an event while we debate it and if the debate leads to the negative then just have the event fall through.

I see no sense in moving forward with that until we have some clarification here. Changes made here could result in holding the fore mentioned event pointless. So best to work this out first I think.

As far a level requirments go. I agree with Mi’reli the bar is being set a little too high. My suggestion would be rather than going off of levels, go by spell level but with bar set lower than what has been suggested. Something like this:

Yath’abban
– Temple Agent - Classes: Cleric, Favored Soul, black guard, divine champion, war priest, warlock, assassin
People who may or may not be of a house but directly serve the temple.
Malla’Yath’abban – Priestess in training. - Ability to cast 4th level divine spells(ie, Greater Magic Weapon), Classes: Cleric, Favored Soul, war priest. Must be Noble.
The priestesses in training.
Yathrin – Ability to cast 6th level divine spells (Harm, heal) Classes: Cleric, Favored Soul,, war priest
Priestesses
Yath’tellar – (Any Epic Spell, set the bar higher than 9th level spells.Epic spells show a commitment to the class and class oriented skills) Cleric
The High Priestess
And of course an NPC Ulath’tellar with almost god like power do to her closeness to the goddess.

More suggestions. -
All who plan to be Yathrin or higher have to go through the church, not a house. This does not mean the Yathrin or Yath'tellars have to be un-housed. Vice versa, the houses send recruits to the Yath to train and grow. Arach Tinilith to the core.
Houses that do not abide by this will slowly begin to fall in the eyes of the church. In other wards, if the houses are not sending their little Yath hopefuls in to Arach Tinilith, will be viewed as having contempt for the church by Arach Tinilith. This will not bode well for the offending house. In our worlds application of course, we only have two houses so to avoid partisan squabbles, the NPC Ulath'tellar would be utilized here. She would simply step in and force the house to give up it's priestess to Arach Tinlith, her by whatever means the DM decides.
The Il'haressen, will strive to increase their own status in the church's eyes so they will be trying to send every able bodied potential priestess to the church as soon as they are ready to become Malla Yatha'abbanen.
Il'haressen will also relinquish the rank of Yath'tellar (If necassary) when they take their mantle. They will be considered Yathrin in church rank, but church status and standing can be much higher if they have many Malla'Yath'abanen and Yathrin with in the church. This is pure logic of how it should work. The house with most Yath is strongest with in the church in this manner. This could even be a way to achieve first house. By having the largest amount of Yath.
Malla'Yathabbanen will play students as much as Yath. Once a real life month the Malla Yath'abbanen will be tested. If there is only one Yath'abban with in the Yath at that time there will be no test. Only one Yath'abban will pass these tests, if any at all. They will have to compete, whoever has the most skilled knowledgeable will likely have to win.
Malla Yath'abbanen are considered lower house members. Below house masters. Respect to there superiors, is something the rest of the Yath will judge them on. Any Yathrin or Yath'tellar can choose to hold a Malla'Yath'abban back from testing if they choose.
Once a Malla Yath'abban has passed eight tests. They will be advanced to Yathrin.
The Yathrin will be the average members of the church. Your typicall Drow Priestess. They will hold the Yath above all else and force others to be Lolthian. The Yathrin are also the teachers. They must teach the Malla Yath'abbanen no matter what house and much teach the drow of their houses the ways of Lolth. If a Yathrin from one house feels a any drow of another house must learn a hard lesson, they can whip them if they choose. If they feel harsher instruction is in order, they must bring it before a Yath'tellar, the Il'haress, or three other Yathrinen to decide further punishment.
Arach Tinlith will be the only thing that can declare any drow or house heretical. No single drow will have this ability. A Yath'tellar however can declare heresy and bring the matter upto the combined Yath. The combined Yathrinen will then hold an OOC vote to determine Lolth's will, with 2/3s of those poled required to rule in favor of declaring said drow or house hertical. The vote will be OOC and will be considered Lolth's will in the matter. If the vote fails, the Yath will shrug it off. This is important, because in the case of a house having no Yath, it will fall. It also makes it difficult to declare a heretic with out really hard evidence.
The Yath'tellar will also will work to co-ordiante the Yath. They will be the judge, jury to all drow. Even the Yathrinen. A presence on the boards should be important for this rank as well.
Yathrinen will also need to be heavily heavily tested to be Yath'tellar. Even if they meet the requirments for class and spells. The Ulathtellar will approve who is and is not Yath'tellar. They will need to be on the boards as well as in game. Maybe even a Quorum call once a week to make sure the Yath is present and active on the boards at least.
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Tibus_Heth

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:32 pm

As I pointed out in the other thread this has come up in, I think the limit should be Spell Level related, not Class Level with 3rd level being the entry-point for Yath'abban status. Whilst a level-ten entrypoint does combat day-one-yath'abban there is an issue in that canonically there's no rank below Yath'abban and I'm not that comfortable with ignoring ten levels worth of divine spellcasting power IC.

As for the quoted Lord Droke post, again as I stated in the other thread, I agree in general barring the two following points of contention:


Quote :
1) Blackguards, Divine Champions etc are Yath'sargtlin by what standardized canon I'm aware of so I don't see why you'd roll them into the Yath'abban other than having a similar comparative rank, separated mainly by the gender issue and the fact that a Yath'abban has an up to go to, rankwise.

2) 'Malla' is used by a fair few people in the camp, myself included, as a generic prefix to show particular respect to an individual either generally or situationally - making it part of a title makes this..wonky. If someone is talking to three Yath'abban and one is generally considered 'superior' or close to Yath'rin-hood then one might opt to add a 'Malla' to show one's awareness of the pecking order, but making it part of a title will, I feel, lead to confusion.
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Assistant DM_MindFlayer

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:42 pm

Spell Level would be easier to prove IG than Class Level. And would seem a direct testimony of the Yath's ability.

I know how we use Malla Ig, but Im digging the attachment to the station that seems to be mentioned by Lord Droke. It separates or distinguishes the Yath'abbans. Perhaps Malla'Yath'abban could be condensed to Malla'bban? And what if this title suggested that the character was getting ready to face the Trials of Lloth? Even have a specific dress for that character so everyone could spot them, say white robes and white cloak. Just tossing out a few ideas.
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ObsidianRaven

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:44 pm

[quote="Tibus_Heth"]
Quote :
1) Blackguards, Divine Champions etc are Yath'sargtlin by what standardized canon I'm aware of so I don't see why you'd roll them into the Yath'abban other than having a similar comparative rank, separated mainly by the gender issue and the fact that a Yath'abban has an up to go to, rankwise.

Your right, Blackgaurds are considered Yathabban because they get devine spells, if the same is true about divine champions they should also get the yathabban rank, if they are female I think the lore goes.

2) 'Malla' is used by a fair few people in the camp, myself included, as a generic prefix to show particular respect to an individual either generally or situationally - making it part of a title makes this..wonky. If someone is talking to three Yath'abban and one is generally considered 'superior' or close to Yath'rin-hood then one might opt to add a 'Malla' to show one's awareness of the pecking order, but making it part of a title will, I feel, lead to confusion.

This was me pulling a title out of the air, one I had seen used alot towards the more powerful and well known yathabbans, im sure we can think up a more fitting name if need be Smile
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LoudDave

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:05 am

Assassins are not yath'abbens no.
Assassins and rogues have their own ranks already.
Remove assassins from yath ranks.
just because its called "temple agent" doesn't me they are using agent in the 007 way. insurance agents are not assassins. Temple agents are not assassins.
Assassin levels do not count toward yath ranks.
___
Also warlocks have their own ranking system, their levels do not count toward yath ranks.
___
I belive blackgaurd's were refereed to as dreadgaurds. im not sure if they have more/further ranks than that
they are not yathabben.
___
Yath are clergy.
Cleric or FS levels will determine.
A paladin is not a cleric. a barbarian is not a fighter a wizard is not a warlock is not a rouge is not a arcane archer.
The classes you take DO matter. i cant be fighter 27 wizard 3 and expect to be called master wizard, that doesn't make sense.

So again i Feel that yath'abbens should be required to cast level 5 devine spells.

If you want a rank before that how about temple servant. yath'wanre (divine spell levels 0-4)

A yathrin, a FULL priestes should have a FULL spellbook: level 9 devine spells + a total level of 21. that way you have to rp them for a good long time before your a full priestess.

Yath'tellar- 20 total in a combination of cleric or FS. ie an epic priestess. + the ability to cast an epic spell + a total level of 24

I am in favor of these additional requirements to rank in order to politically balance and groom the yath.



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gandruff

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:42 am

LoudDave wrote:
Also warlocks have their own ranking system, their levels do not count toward yath ranks.
Warlocks are stated to be able to apply to count as a low ranked yathabban due to their dealing with lolths demons.


LoudDave wrote:
Assassins and rogues have their own ranks already.
Remove assassins from yath ranks.
I would say remove assasins, the nearest they can get would be dread fangs of lolth.

LoudDave wrote:
I belive blackgaurd's were refereed to as dreadgaurds. im not sure if they have more/further ranks than that
they are not yathabben.
Female blackguards can apply as low ranked yathabban due to gaining some divine power from lolth, males would become at best Yath'sargtlin

For the rank levels i'm preferring Lord Drokes as yes a wizard3/fighter27 isnt a master wizard, but the best he can cast are 2nd circle spells no better than a apprentice. This is why the 'has to be able to cast x circle' is good.

LoudDave wrote:
Yath'tellar- 20 total in a combination of cleric or FS. ie an epic priestess. + the ability to cast an epic spell + a total level of 24
No No No please No. No favored soul Yathtallars, makes taking cleric levels useless as favoured souls get so much they outclass clerics. this came up in the past and I'm VERY glad DM AXE ruled that yathtallar was cleric only. Hence why I keep suggesting that Yathtallars be made to prove they can Turn Undead to prove they arent Favored Souls

though I really don't agree with you having only cleric levels as that pretty much equals you must have the same build, there isnt any room to play around with a fun concept and those that want to try something more fun but do want to strive to something higher are getting discouraged from doing such. Please just keep it to requiring cleric spellcasting rather than X number of levels of cleric
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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:28 am

gandruff wrote:




I concede my warlock point. you win mi.
but now apply that to gender?

We agree on assassin.

I guess i could agree on with you on female blackgaurds.
But think if your a male going for yath-anything it should be DM approved. that way we have some volume control on something of that rarity.

---fine no FS. i wasn't happy with that concession in the fist place. forget i suggested that.

and fine
yath'wanre- circle 1
yath'abben -circle 5
yath'rin - circle 9
Yath'tellar -circle 9 +epic spell + cleric only
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Lord Droke

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:25 am

Quote :
Assassins are not yath'abbens no.
Assassins and rogues have their own ranks already.
Remove assassins from yath ranks.
just because its called "temple agent" doesn't me they are using agent in the 007 way. insurance agents are not assassins. Temple agents are not assassins.
Assassin levels do not count toward yath ranks.

007 LOL. Why not? I was thinking more in the insurance agents area yes. Insurance agents are agents of an insurance company yes? These are agents of the church. Is it really that infeasible that the Temple of Lolth would employ assassins for it’s personal needs as well as Yath’sargtlinen? A temple to a goddess who holds assassination as one of her facets? A church who’s priestesses often have assassin levels? I suppose the Yath could go the houses for assassins if it needed some, but that could become overly partisan easily, unless of course the assassins are primarily used on their own houses by the Yath.....

Quote :
Also warlocks have their own ranking system, their levels do not count toward yath ranks.
I tend to agree, save the case where someone is actually using a warlock class to play a Draegloth. I inserted based off current canon on the boards.

Quote :
Warlocks are stated to be able to apply to count as a low ranked yathabban due to their dealing with lolths demons.

According to the test though it reads, “If these individuals meet the other requirements” Warlocks can be in or out, IMO, no not unless the meet other Yath requirements, but a Warlock5 /Cleric 9 could for example may have a little more clout in the church for the demonic dealings and heritage.

Quote :
I belive blackgaurd's were refereed to as dreadgaurds. im not sure if they have more/further ranks than that
they are not yathabben

Dreadguards are the personal guard of the Il’haressen. They could be blackguard. Blackguard can also be Yath’sargtlin. So a sargtlin with Blackguard levels could feasibly serve the church, but if they are only level 6/3 they are hardly a Yath'sargtlin. A blackguard who openly casts diving magic that stems from Lolth better be part of the church, remember in order for the system to work there are key elements. A blackguard who does not cast divine from Selvatarm or Lolth is a heretic. Once who does cast from those deities, should report to the church. Especially if they are houseless. The ranks exist out of the clergy ranks anyway and can be incorporated anyway we wish or not at all, we are after all, legislating here.
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Lord Droke

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:34 am

Changes to my language regarding Heresy....

A Yath'tellar can bring make a declaration of heresy on any individual. This is a minor heresy, one that often results in minor punishment performed by the Yath'tellar.

To declare someone an actual heretic.
1. The Yath'tellar must submit a screen shot with a brief summary of the event to the Yath and the DM.
2.. The Yath'tellar must declare heresy during the transgression and should be in the screen shot(s).
3.The Yath will hold it's vote and offer up it's recommendation to the DM.

4. The DM Will make the final decision.

Keep in mind, a Yath'tellar does not have to bring every heresy declaration before the Yath. If they are minor she will just punish the transgressor, re educate them and send them on their way.

Houses will simply not be ruled as heretical except in very extreme circumstances. Those extreme situations will still come from a DM.
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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:32 am

haha, i must clarify my agent joke.
An insurance agent is not an assassin.
A "special agent" (ie 007) well hes more of a spy then an assassin.
A temple agent is not an assassin.
Im trying to show that the word agent here does not imply assassin.
Agent in this sense means more like, apprentice/asset.

to say yath'abben translates to temple Agent\Assassin\Spy\Apprentice would be incorrect.
To say yath'abben translates to temple Agent\apprentice\initiate\servant would be correct.

Im just clarifying that Assassins to not enter yath ranks.
___
And as far as the temple needing assassins. If you say the temple admits assassins as yath'abbens because the temple needs assassins, doesn't it follow that the temple also need warriors, mages, singers, and everything else? so shouldn't therefore we have places for all classes within the temple? If we have all these places for outside classes in the temple then what is the point of having a temple in the first place because its no different than just normal.
This is the very reason i hate yath'sarglithin, yath'singer, the currently being born concept of yath'assasins, the future will hold yath'melzers. Eventually everyone will be yath'something, and i think that is just muddy and nonsensical.
____
Also i now agree with your heresy protocol, +1 to that LD

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Tibus_Heth

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:48 am

LoudDave wrote:

A yathrin, a FULL priestes should have a FULL spellbook: level 9 devine spells + a total level of 21. that way you have to rp them for a good long time before your a full priestess.

There are whole countries in Faerun that won't have a single level 20 cleric of a given, practiced, religion. The vast majority of clerics, and thus priests, are not (or not current) adventurers. Drizzt and co. are level...15? So are several named and statted high priests of religions in various countries.

I stand by level 3 spells (5th level pure cleric) for the Yath'abban who are entry level priestesses with an entry limit of either 5th or 8th level (10 and 15 pure cleric respectively) for Yath'rin, leaning in favour of the 8th level option on the basis that that correlates with the level 15 requirement for House Master status stated elsewhere on the forums as a fairly equivalent rank. Yath'tallar should require 9th level spells, in my opinion, to correlate approximately with the suggested minimum level 20 for Ilharess rank, especially since many canonical Ilharess are ex-Yath'tallar who have been promoted.

Edit: If we're wanting to introduce an extra rank for the 'senior Yath'abban' then might I suggest that fits in nicely to the above scheme as the '5th circle spells' requirement (10 cleric)?

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:19 am

Lord Droke wrote:
Changes to my language regarding Heresy....

A Yath'tellar can bring make a declaration of heresy on any individual. This is a minor heresy, one that often results in minor punishment performed by the Yath'tellar.

To declare someone an actual heretic.
1. The Yath'tellar must submit a screen shot with a brief summary of the event to the Yath and the DM.
2.. The Yath'tellar must declare heresy during the transgression and should be in the screen shot(s).
3.The Yath will hold it's vote and offer up it's recommendation to the DM.

4. The DM Will make the final decision.

Keep in mind, a Yath'tellar does not have to bring every heresy declaration before the Yath. If they are minor she will just punish the transgressor, re educate them and send them on their way.

Houses will simply not be ruled as heretical except in very extreme circumstances. Those extreme situations will still come from a DM.

Sounds nice. +1


It goes along with the fact, that to openly accuse someone of something, one must provide proof of their actions to their peers or superiors to gain favor in acting.

+1
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gandruff

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:35 am

I am still of the opinion there is no such rank as yathqueshall the only rank that exists in that regard is yathsargtlin who are like the temple guards
If we want assains the yath can use we uave dread fangs of Lolth . I see no need to give them actual temple rank
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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:18 pm

Tibus_Heth wrote:



And we have a few clerics in our little campsite who are over 20. Dalelands does not accurately resemble Faerun so there is no reason for our ranks to be determined by such. These rank levels are designed to keep the camp somewhat accurate interms of how many people of a certain rank there are. Yath'abben is given out way too soon for the power that comes with it.

If drizzit dropped into dalelands her need the "dalelands level adjustment" and wind up like 28 or 30, he must be with all that rare and unique gear he has.

And that is why Yath'tellar cant be level 15 here. all yath pcs would rush to 15, and now you have a yathtellar:yathrin ratio of 5:1.

And i dont propose we make a "senior yath'abben". i propose we make a "fresh yath'abben" rank. this rank will fill the gap im makeing when i set the yathabben requirement to 5th circle spell.

And if you say your leaning toward 8th circle for yathrin, you know 8th and 9th are only two levels away.
And i could see setting a special case for an ilharess of a new house.

Here:
For existing houses.
yath'wanre- circle 1 Temple servant (like an alter boy)
yath'abben -circle 5 Temple agent (Priestess in training/max rank of any non full devine caster)
(males are limited to yath'abben max. and the creation of a male that is to hold any rank in the temple be DM approved)
yath'rin - circle 9 Full Preistesss
Yath'tellar -circle 9 +epic spell + cleric only High priestess

For a new house an Ilharess need not cast an epic spell but must be 21.




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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:54 pm

gandruff wrote:
I am still of the opinion there is no such rank as yathqueshal

Actually, there is. However, it is a rank that is only available in House Zau'afin, and carries the respect of any other House Master position that is not the House's High Priestess.

I would like to ask that any of our Qu'eshalen players be given the respect they are due (roughly equivalent to Female Mages.) Yes, they are below the yath, but they are female, and outrank female Assassins or female fighters.
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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:02 pm

I know it is used within Zau'afin however I have yet to see any lore evidence behind such a ranks existance, or any real reason before having yath in the name. whats wrong with the title Quel'el'queshel? having yath in the name suggest she answers directly to the yath not the quellar
This is unrelated though so can be resolved another time
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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:12 pm

Quote :
Singers/Bae’Queshel

This string of the house is unique to Qu’ellar Zau’Afin, and may not fit into colloquial drow lore. The Bae’Queshel are devout followers of Lolth who praise her through their song. It is not uncommon to see multiple singers attend house prayers. They typically sit in the background like a choir, set the mood and tempo during prayers and significant house events. They are highly respected members of this house. Even the most holy of prayers may have the head singer present. Only females will be allowed within this string of the qu’ellar.

This is why. You can find this info on our public Guild page. In House Zau'Afin, the singers are answerable to the Church and the Qu'ellar equally (as far as I have seen) because they specifically use their talents to promote Lolth's ways.

This is a slight derailment, as I do not think any are proposing the Yath'Queshel should be a permanent rank of the Main Church.

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:05 pm

Quote :
And as far as the temple needing assassins. If you say the temple admits assassins as yath'abbens because the temple needs assassins, doesn't it follow that the temple also need warriors, mages, singers, and everything else? so shouldn't therefore we have places for all classes within the temple? If we have all these places for outside classes in the temple then what is the point of having a temple in the first place because its no different than just normal.

On this I can agree. The church could always utilize the houses if they need assassins, just as they do for soldiers. Remember, technically there will not be legions of Yath’sargtlin. Think of them as red stormtroopers from the star wars series. Rare, in fact I think the only place you see them is guarding the emperor. No more than a handful.

Facts: The church has Yath’sargtlin, the church would use and assassin from time to time.

As far as assassins go I see a situation in my mind that made me decide other than assassination being an area of Lolth’s faith.

The Church decides Zau”afin Jaluk a needs to be silenced for something, maybe say, discussing something the church kept quiet. How does the church handle this situation?

1.
  • The church uses it’s own assassins that are independent of the houses to strike at the Zau’Afin Jaluk. This has draw- backs as mentioned.


2.
  • The Church sends a bunch of priestesses to silence the jaluk. This would be kind of loud. It clearly states that the church did not like what the jaluk was saying. If the church want’s something to remain under the rug it is difficult to do so with such a large statement..

3.
  • The church utilizes a house Velg’larn to strike at the Zau’Afin male. If the church uses a Dabel’kith it will create partisan issues as well as inject the secret right into the sava game the houses play. If the church uses a Zau’Afn assassin, will compromise the mark itself.


4.
  • The church hires mercenaries to do it’s dirty work. This will likely keep the secret, but the idea of the church paying anyone to act seems absurd.


What would be the best way to handle such a situation?

When I played Ulath’tellar on the other server I had work arounds. First, and most conveniently I had another organization to filter information to the church and perform in the afore mentioned situations. It was not part of the church, but a separate organization known at the V.D.V.M, can’t remember what it stood for. I also employed the local mercenary band. Rather than paying for it, I subjugated it. Crafting a deal with the local mercenary guilds leadership, she agreed that the church would turn a blind eye to the majority of the mercenary bands dealings, in exchange for it to be under permanent contract.

There was a catch to this that I should mention as well. I purposely crafted this deal to myself. They served my char, and thus served the church. This in turn bound them to my character more so than the church. If anyone tried to overthrow my character or challenged my house of origin, I had a mercenary company in my back pocket to utilize to my benefit. Was I wrong in doing this? Maybe, but it made sense to me that even as Ulath’tellar, my character would take steps to protect her position as well continue to amass power to herself personally. She is still after all a drow, and a priestess to boot. This is another prime example of why a PC should NOT be Ulath’tellar.

In truth the allowance of these classes to be servants of the temple isn’t that important. If we don’t like that part forget it does not need to be. I kind of feel it’s like debating house structure and wasting time talking about how the rothe will fit in.

Quote :
A yathrin, a FULL priestes should have a FULL spellbook: level 9 devine spells + a total level of 21. that way you have to rp them for a good long time before you’re a full priestess.

I disagree with this, I feel the bar is being set way too high for Yathrin here. The ability to fully heal or bring someone to the point of death with a touch (heal/harm) should be the only spell requirement for Yathrin. Some may find this hard to believe, but Gin is only level 22 and has just gained level 9 spells. Like Mi'reli she was forced into her position early (level 19) to insure house survival. Zau’Afin formed in her first two weeks of play. This is how old she is in real life. A person should not have to play for over a year to be a priestess. There is no fun for the player in that. I also find it highly dubious that every drow priestess will be able to go ethereal, cause earthquakes, etc. Setting the spell level requirement for Yathrin so high also levels the playing field a little too much. Competition should be important with in the priesthood..


Quote :
This is the very reason i hate yath'sarglithin, yath'singer, the currently being born concept of yath'assasins, the future will hold yath'melzers. Eventually everyone will be yath'something, and i think that is just muddy and nonsensical.

Mel’zar’s would never be utilized in such away. Arach Tinlith is also part of the academy structure, so the temple would not have it’s own mages, it would simply go next door to sorcere and grab what it required. The same can be said for Sargtlinen.

The Yath’Sargtlin is a holy warior. Not be confused with an ordinary Sargtlin. Divine Champion or Blackguard or even war priest of Selvatarm, should be requirements for this as well as a high level requirement.

Quote :
I have yet to see any lore evidence behind such a ranks existence

Neither are you likely to find a house of psions in lore either, if you follow canon strictly, but they have existed in Menzo and I believe Maerimydra. You won’t find many references to houses secretly lead by Drow lich males either, but they have existed. You will not find canon accounts for houses with two matrons, but they have existed. Most houses do have a trait that makes them Unique. Zau’Afin is no exception.

A special note on Yath’Queshel:
Yath’queshel Is not a church rank, it is a rank with in Zau’Afin. When Zau’Afin was founded, one of the prominent players was Nil’kah, a high level singer. To incorporate her properly, the Zau’Afin founders crafted a custom house position. A choir of Bae’queshel, headed by a head singer known as the Yath’qusehel. Yath was used in the name to emphasize the positions prominence. To Zau’Afin the choir is an important part of it’s heritage and showing it’s faith to Lolth. To be a Quesehel one must be female. The Yath’Queshel sits directly between the house Yath and the Quel’Faeruk in Zau’Afin house ranking. Yes, this is not canon, but it fits and it is limited to Zau’Afin.

To make it clear and I speak for all of my guild here.

Yath’queshel is custom Zau’Afin rank. We will meet any and all challenges, weather OOC or IC, to our right to customize our own ranks and stations as we see fit (excluding the actual Yath itself). We do not expect our Yath’queshel or her Choir of Bae’queshel to be treated as Yath or in any way holy. We do expect the Yath’queshel to be treated with respect, she is the lead singer to the Zau’Afin Yath’tellar and Il’haress’s choir and should be treated as a Zau’Afin house master. To insult them in game is to insult Ginthrae and Ala’s choir and thus insult Zau’Afin.

In future discussions, in other threads, we may agree to change the name of the position if it is really that big of a deal, but the Zau'Afin choir stays.

Back to topic:

I really like the idea of epic spells as a requirement for Yath’tellar. Only a very high level cleric can cast them. It focus’s the build to utilize class skills that are required to take the feats. It shows a certain commitment to the Cleric class. Summoning a balor could be a very good bar to being a High Priestess.

Here is an interesting question…should we impose domain restrictions on clerics? Server rules already state that domains should reflect the deity, but should we detail out what feats here? This will of course open a whole new line of debate.
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gandruff

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:49 pm

Well lolth allows domains of Darkness, Poison and Trickery as per DnD Lore with previous domains being Chaos, Destruction, Drow, Evil, Spider.
Of these inserver we have Darkness, Evil, Chaos, Trickery, Destruction. So I would say as long as clerics have those domains it should be fine.
I like to think what domains a cleric has are based more on how they go about their worship, after all Mi is something of a manipulator and has some skill in the stealth sides of things so she has the Darkness and Trickery domains.
Another Yathabban I know is a lot more based upon lolths chaos and embracing that and she has the Evil and Chaos domains.

Coincidentally Mi got level 9 spells at level 24 too hehe

Lord Droke wrote:

Neither are you likely to find a house of psions in lore either, if you follow canon strictly, but they have existed in Menzo and I believe Maerimydra. You won’t find many references to houses secretly lead by Drow lich males either, but they have existed. You will not find canon accounts for houses with two matrons, but they have existed. Most houses do have a trait that makes them Unique. Zau’Afin is no exception.

Ok thanks for clarifying
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FuzzieBunny

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:21 pm

Normally Bae'queshel are part of the church. They are always women, and they are trained in the secret method of magic under the strict guidance of the church. They usually have cleric levels. anyone who has read War of the Spider Queen knows that the body Lolth took was that of a Bae'queshel. However this is a side bar and on the Dale Lands Server, Bae'queshel are just bards

But really, we are getting to into the weeds here. Lets keep with KISS. Lets set up the basic structure we need for now. With out the basics done, all these side bars are kind of a mute point anyway.

We need

Temple Agents

Priest

High Priest

Holy Warriors

Every thing else will fall under one of these four headings.



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CloakandDagger22

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:58 pm

Lord Droke wrote:
but a separate organization known at the V.D.V.M, can’t remember what it stood for.

Valsharen Drow Vel'Xundussa Magthere - Royal Drow Security Institute ("VDVM")
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Kelticraven

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PostSubject: Re: Name the Ranks of Yath   Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:18 pm

On a side note:
Quote :
Think of them as red stormtroopers from the star wars series. Rare, in fact I think the only place you see them is guarding the emperor. No more than a handful.

The name of the "red stormtroopers are the Praetorian Guard.. an elite group in the Star Wars universe. Here is a write up on them: Praetorian Guard

Perhaps reading up on them will help to set what you want for the Temple Guards of the Yath.
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